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OP: What's the issue of interest in all of this? What has struck you from what we've discussed in the last few classes? Write your feedback and wait for Professor Nesson's go-ahead to submit.
Titan: After reading the briefs, my initial takeaway is that he's getting excessively punished, and the gov't is like "nuh-uh, we let him go to a couple family things"
Mahasim: If I was Donziger and I could get away with it I would flee. I do not believe he will. But this has taken 20 years of his life. You only live that long. At some point it's gotta enter your mind!
Neptune: unnecessarily harsh
Altair: I am truly don't understand why someone who poses so little harm is on total lockdown.
Dione: Judge has a connection to Chevron?
Messier 83: Donziger is getting screwed by the system
Titan: I can't imagine him screwing over his friend w/ the $800k home collateral and just bailing on his family
Utapau: After this week's readings I was more. convinced it was excessive punishment. His appeal to the second circuit provided a lot more detail that I wasn't aware of when reading the briefs for last class
Athos: contempt of court is the most bullshit charge in the american judicial system
Dione: saw something about Gibson dunn
Tethys: I agree it is unnecessarily harsh. Nobody's going to flee to Ecuador over a six month maximum jail sentence.
Mercury: I think the issue of interest is how it is just that he's been confined to his home for over a year while waiting to be tried for a contempt misdemeanor for which you could face a maximum of 6 months in jail. Why is he such a greater flight risk than thousands of defendants facing much more serious felony charges who are released on bail?
Venus: Interested in finding out whether Donziger is 1.) a self-dealing, media-loving, corrupt attorney, or 2.) altruistic savior of the Amazon.
Roggeveen: yeah this seems incredibly draconian
Neptune: well the threat to big business and big oil makes him a threat
Sateda: At what point is a judge actually limited from doing whatever they want? is "the law" just balancing tests a judge can put their finger on to lead to their desired outcome? Or is it something that constrains private actors and judges alike?
Vorash: I would not flee if i were him. He has a family and alife and has already been subjected to harsh house detention for no reason. Gotta be nuts to flee.
Roggeveen: Venus, why not both?
Vorash: Issue of interest to me is how it is constitutional to subject him to such rule and unusual punsihment
Athos: @venus its 1, but that doesn't change the fact that he shouldn't be under house arrest
Venus: Luyten... touche
Iapetus: I'm curious on why Donziger didn't appeal (even speculation, what could explain the strategic decision)?
Titan: I thought the crime category comparison to "littering in a national park" in the one brief to be compelling
Oberon: My initial takeaway is that this is an odd series of events. While I don't think the RICO trial or the contempt charge was some sort of massive conspiracy by SDNY to "get" him, the current confinement is odd, overly harsh, and likely vindictive for his noncompliance in the Kaplan trial
Neptune: I don't see why he would flee. Family not gonna uproot themselves
Dione: What is Professor Nesson's role in this? is he assisting Donzigers counsel?
Hengfors: Are we questioning whether he is a flee risk or whether what he did was wrong.
Oberon: It's nuanced
Tethys: This seems like exactly the sort of abuse the founders tried to prevent.
Anchor: I agree in excessive punishment. From the beginning, the entire case was meritless. I also wonder what Kaplan is gaining from this.
Earth: i mean the court has the right to evaluate the plea risk esp since this has been a super long issue
Vorash: I dont think Kaplan has to get anything from this. Could just be plain power
Earth: i do think he should of appealed but at the same time we understand the plea system some ppl would just take it to avoid a harsher sentence or avoid the whole judicial process
Athos: Kaplan almost certainly doesn't have a conflict of interest he's just a power-hungry judge
Vorash: agreed sunflower
Titan: Does anyone in here think Donziger isn't getting excessively punished
Hengfors: What would the appeal be?
Venus: Does our name keep changing? The @ sign may not work well if so
Earth: @sunflower Hi! i wanted to ask what makes you think the judge is power-hungry?
Oberon: Kaplan was probably pissed at Donziger's non-compliance with discovery
Mahasim: Does anybody strongly beliee this is justified
Tethys: @mahasim, really? You would flee? Your friend would lose his house.
Altair: Do we know if Preska and Kaplan are friends?
Titan: @Kashyyyk I was asking the same question
Dione: Feel like there is still a lot we don't know about this case
Vorash: Andromeda why else would Kaplan do this?
Utapau: Kaplan is vengeful
Roggeveen: I find it strange to consider the non-compliance to be necessarily intentional. That's a lot of crap to have to produce/refute and we know his legal team was scant. could answer why the appeal didnt happen
Earth: yes that is what i felt @pinwheel i did not think necessary power hungry more petty bc of lack of compliance with discovery
Venus: How many times did he disregard the confinement?
Dione: both briefs were convincing (on the subject of collateral estoppal) not on the flight risk assesment
Sateda: @mahasim, doesn't "if I could get away with it" kind of miss the point? We're assessing the objective risk that he will try to flee, so shouldn't;t his chances of success (which are dismal) factor into this?
Titan: I think it doesn't matter what we know about the Chevron Case in Ecuador, but what we know about his contempt case
Vorash: I think the non compliance pissed kaplan off and kaplan had to show DOnsiger who is in charge
Oberon: Didn't he not produce some stuff claiming privilege even though he was ordered to? That's non-compliance
Venus: Anyone watch the movie Crude?
Oberon: But I do think the home confinement situation is nuts
Vorash: Exactly why I think it was a power grab
Oberon: And honestly the private prosecution
Iapetus: @Andromeda that is a fair point. But Donziger--being an attorney--must have seen the tenuous nature of the decision and wanted it reviewed. It was a crucial mistake and his unwillingness to acknowledge it leaves an easy opening for a judge to say he concedes the bribery charge
Umbriel: @Pinwheel I understand the resistance to the notion of conspiracy but when you admit the injustice here it's hard to sever it from the previous trial. If there was excessive use of discretion in keeping him detained pre-trial couldn't we argue it was also excessive to raise the RICO charges in the first place
Vorash: Home confinement situation is outrageous
Mercury: I think they should have to release him on time served
Hengfors: @Posada I agree
Oberon: The RICO trial was civil RICO @ariel
Mercury: The over a year on house arrest has to be somewhat equivalent to a few months in jail
Procyon A: @Lantes: Yes, i&i offer my counsel to him, and have submitted an amicus brief to the Appellate Division on his behalf.
Altair: @posada agreed
Anchor: @venus, I agree. Donzinger isn't getting much coverage though. None of the major outlets are picking this up.
Mercury: our class should write an amicus brief
Neptune: how is rico civil i feel like that doesn't even make sense
Hengfors: I hate the court of public opinion
Vorash: outlets dont actually give a damn about anyone so not surprising
Titan: I mean, back in the 00's, a year of house arrest is what Jeffrey Epstein got for raping kids
Mercury: I want to attend the livestream of this trial
Mahasim: Upper - same
Vorash: They care about what gets them hits, not actual justice
Mahasim: Cool CARES ACT rule
Vorash: Upper - agreed
Tethys: is anyone concerned that if we write an amicus brief Chevron will harass us?
Vorash: Langara - no
Messier 83: @upper for sureeeeee
Messier 83: gonna be juicy
Anchor: @Langara, yes. That was my first thought
Dione: we'll submit it through threads
Oberon: There is the possibility of civil and criminal RICO actions, just like there is civil and criminal fraud @triangulum
Jealousy: "Mr. Donziger once bluntly told a documentary filmmaker: “We have concluded that we need to do more, politically, to control the court, to pressure the court. We believe they make decisions based on who they fear the most, not based on what the laws should dictate.”
Procyon A: @Triton: right you are. will check where this is on the bug list..
Hengfors: Chevron should be worried about getting those who affect their stock price. Run Donziger around till he can't bother them. Not us.
Mercury: @Langara- no. We are entitled to participate in the justice system through the mechanism designed for interested parties to participate
Titan: The court of public opinion / netflix documentaries has put pressure on public officials before
Vorash: Yeah I dont know if donziger is a scumbag or not but the legal issues here are shocking
Hengfors: Maybe Chevron will think we are participating on their side.
Oberon: Agreed Orilla
Vorash: Uranus - the problem with the court of public opinion
Tethys: I'm not saying we aren't entitled to participate--I'm saying Chevron doesn't play by the rules
Oberon: I wasn't very sympathetic to Donziger at first but the home confinement and private prosecution is nuts
Dione: what's the name of the Netflix doc?
Oberon: A court shouldn't have prosecutorial power that seems like such a separation of powers failure that Kaplan appointed a law firm to prosecute this guy when SDNY USAO declined to bring charges
Sateda: @Pinwheel, agreed
Sateda: It's also crazy that he, rather than the presiding judge, appointed the law firm
Vorash: Kaplan should be impeached
Oberon: Yes Luyten
Oberon: On what grounds would he be impeached though?
Oberon: I guess this could fall under "bad behavior"
Vorash: very bad bhavior
Hengfors: I don't like the case anymore.
Sateda: @Brugge, what do you mean?
Hengfors: Is this merely a case where the court system stinks and a Donziger and his lawyers played the cards for too long?
Hoags Object: who is excited for justice barrett
Jealousy: Me, she seems like a smart person and great lawyer
Jealousy: Not a fan of her abortion views
Messier 83: she didn't think the n-word created a hostile work environment in a workplace discrimination case
Messier 83: even kavanaugh was like wtf
Messier 83:
Vorash: "The n-word is an egregious racial epithet. That said, Smith can't win simply by proving that the word was uttered. He must also demonstrate that Colbert's use of this word altered the conditions of his employment and created a hostile or abusive working environment," she wrote.
Felucia: That sounds reasonable to me
Starkiller Base: The N-word was used AFTER the plaintiff was terminated. Media is blatantly leaving that out of the reporting