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Sirius B: did not mean to push send on that other thread but happy others bailed me out
Scarif: Federal appellate courts in the Second Circuit, which encompasses New York, permit sound and video recordings of oral arguments under certain circumstances. The Second Circuit does not permit recording of criminal matters, but "any person or entity regularly engaged in the gathering and dissemination of news" may record oral arguments in civil cases if they notify the calendar clerk no later than noon two days prior to the proceeding. The presiding judges have the discretion to exclude the media from the courtroom, and there are limitations on the number of cameras that will be allowed at any time. Recording devices are not permitted in federal district courts in New York.
Arcturus: we dont know who you are
Earth: you are allowed to use direct quotes from court when people do court write ups and since trials are open to the public (unless expressly limited) you should be allowed to record and share audio too
Sirius B: always thought the premise in how to get away with murder was a little unrealistic. she basically talks about open investigations with her studetns
Phobos: I think this should be a 1A issue. It
Arcturus: Earth its a bit difference when you have a direct wuote
Phobos: It's a public proceeding so why not
Mars: I mean you are allowed to film in public and criminal trials are generally public
Arcturus: you can alwasy deny or say it was out of context but if the quote is recorded that becomes harder to do
Scarif: @nd circuit has a different rule with criminal trials (see Brenna's link)
Scarif: *2nd circuit
Arcturus: Not saying I dont agree but it is what it is
Brenna: I posted the relevant site above. New York trial courts do not permit recording
Titan: 6A's guarantee of a "public trial, by an impartial jury" should be interpreted to permit the recording and dissemination of all court proceedings absent the government putting forth a compelling interest for those proceedings not being recorded (confidential informant, sensitive testimony (e.g. sexual assault victim)).
Brugge: @phobos, if this is a 1A issue, whose speech is being silenced?
Earth: that is a problem for liars why lie about your quote just crazy
Mercury: Titan makes a good argument
Arcturus: Titan agreed
Venus: Hello world
Arcturus: Hello Venus
Scarif: I think Nesson was trying to say that the delivery of the words matters as well as the content of the words
Phobos: Yeah I'm persuaded by the 6th A argument as well.
Scarif: like, the idea that we can look at a person when they're talking, and tell when they're truthful
Scarif: (even though research says we cant)
Mars: there aren't transcripts of trials right?
Phobos: I think there are transcripts
Scarif: What do court stenographers do then?
Sateda: I feel like this is one of those situations where people probably never actually get in trouble for sharing, so people's practices might just come down to what they are comfortable with
Scarif: I think there are transcripts
Phobos: The point was that many transcripts dont convey some of what's important
Venus: Isn't there always a court reporter and transcript in a criminal proceeding?
Arcturus: Yeah. And likely not to be enforced
Brenna: Fuck it. Lets have him share it
Scarif: Also, doesn't the MPRE have something about how theres lax rules for confidentiality in the professor teaching the class setting
Venus: I think you should be able to share it
Scarif: I'm 100% sure theres something on the MPRE about professors being allowed to share things
Scarif: but not sure what it is they can share
Mercury: If I imagined that i was on a jury, I think I'd do a better job seeing the declarant live than reading a transcript
Ross 248: Since the recording is for the purpose of the class, I think there is a strong argument that we should be able to hear it. Any of us could have listened in to the proceeding that day. We are just hearing it. Not publishing, copying, or distributing it beyond this space.
OP: Is there an ethical component to not releasing the tapes and keeping the discussions private
Sateda: If this matter was about a differs topic like abuse, would we feel differently? And if so, what is the line?
Venus: Don't see any ethical component
Venus: Unless you aren't talking about professional ethics
Scarif: Ross makes a good point
Brenna: as far as the 6A arg... This is likely a status conference, not a trial.
Arcturus: shouldnt change things
Earth: we should be able to listen and not publish copy or distribute like Ross said. We could of easily sat in the court room to hear the same thing as a class so i do not agree we are not allowed to listen to it
Brugge: I think it is unethical to record someone without their knowledge in most instances
Venus: Don't think I'd feel differently if it's about abuse; if it's a public proceeding, it's a public proceeding
Titan: Iapetus, 6A right to counsel applies before trial because having rep before trial is essential to what happens later. Same argument. If you get screwed over in pre-trial hearings, your trial will be a sham.
Arcturus: not when it is a public hearing
Arcturus: to betelgeuse
Venus: Agree with Centaur
Sateda: Does it make a difference that we're on Zoom? Someone could potentially record and distribute it, much easier than the typical dynamics of a classroom. Were the lax practices of classrooms designed for Zoom?
Sateda: Like we literally would be distributing it over the internet
OP: @Belegeuse who is the person who doesn't have notification here? The trial is "public" for all other intents and purposes
Brenna: Status conf. are not trials. They occur at all stages of litigation
Scarif: i think anyone in a classroom could set their phone to audio record too pretty surreptitiously
Scarif: the idea that we're over Zoom shouldn't really matter
Titan: Iapetus, this was a public hearing, not a status conference.
Arcturus: babylon be gone
Ross 248: With COVID, what is stopping anyone from recording a zoom hearing? Is there a difference here?
Sirius B: was Professor Nesson asked to be involved in this case?
Venus: Don't do it Professor!
Sirius B: Leonidis went to war even though he know he would't return. just offering some comps
Pinwheel: Aashiq is a hero I'm sorry that he gets called out every week
Scarif: isnt ecuador a non-extradition country
Umbriel: isaac's mustache is off the charts