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Jupiter: Thanks Anthony
OP: I think the "rapeist" is hearsay
Proxima Centauri: I think it's not hearsay
Athos: anyone else regret going to law school
Orilla: I love threads
Jupiter: Can anyone explain wigmore's rule in one sentence?
Orilla: I think it is not hearsay
Orilla: Athos why do you regret going to law scool
Proxima Centauri: I dont see how it's coming in to prove the truth of the matter asserted
OP: Neptune, what, if anything, do you think it's asserting?
Athos: id rather be a cowboy
Orilla: Iim with neptune. I dont think it is hearsay but I don't think it is sufficient either. The two are separate questions though
Pinwheel: It is saying he is not guilty rather Prather is guilty.
Deimos: isn't it coming in to prove that the other guy in the room didn't carve it? And thus the defendant did?
Orilla: Athos so be a cowboy lawyer
Proxima Centauri: that he spells rapist that way when he writes the word rapist
Ariel: I think it comes in to prove the truth of an unstated assumption.
OP: Betelguese, that's the ultimate fact, but I think there's a lot of inferential steps to get there, no?
Orilla: Someone who spells it as rapeist might not spell it the same every time. A broken clock is right twice a day too
Proxima Centauri: The matter asserted would be whatever the statement actually said
Sateda: I don't think it is hearsay
Orilla: NOT HEARSAY BUT NOT SUFFICIENT
Sateda: agree with orilla
Orilla: sorry for all cap - im in a mood
OP: Orilla, how do you know it is not sufficient?
Deimos: i mean, if it wasn't meant to assert D's guilt, then why was it introduced?
Proxima Centauri: I dont think we can address sufficiency though, because that would require us to see if all the evidence taken together is sufficient
Orilla: you think you can incrimnate someone based on the spelling of a word? it isn't even handwriting or wtvr
OP: Say more, Neptune
Jupiter: How does all this relate to wigmore? asking for a friend
Orilla: Neptune yes, I agree but this alone wouldn't add much IMO
Deimos: @celestis, I think I know that friend (and they DEFINITELY want to know)
Sateda: anyone think it is sufficient?
Orilla: athos so how about that cowboy lawyer thing, Id be down
Proxima Centauri: I'm not saying this evidence is sufficient. I think it's super weak. I just feel like it could be slightly probative and thus admissible as part of a whole case involving stronger evidence
Orilla: yes if you find every doc that this guy wrote rapeist spelled that way and this time spelled correctly it might add a little more. But not just from one doc
Ariel: Agree w Neptune
Earth: Does Nesson ever cold call?
Orilla: There are more ppl than who are just commenting. Where y'all at
Dakara: I don't know very much about hearsay tbh but I am reluctant to keep potentially admissible evidence from the jury in general
Jupiter: @Orilla we're lost
Orilla: Dakara, juries can easily be swayed and it wouldn't be fair to the D to admit things that have more bark than bite
OP: Here's a question for y'all. If it is not hearsay, what stops the prosecution from just cherry picking words out of a witness statement and bringing them in willy nilly?
Orilla: it is hard to undo what ou heard
Proxima Centauri: OP, because they cant come in to prove the truth of the matter asserted
Sateda: I don't think it is hearsay but I do think an objection could be raised regarding relevance
Dakara: I prefaced that with my lack of knowledge about hearsay, you can't come for me
Orilla: OP, it could not be hearsay but it wouldn't help if a rational jury realizes that spelling of words should't determine
Deimos: Checking the other thread and I found something interesting: who says the person that carved is the person that killed?
Duén Canell: Earth, I took another class with him, and no
Orilla: Deimos don't screww up the hypo
Proxima Centauri: Kaer Trolde, I think it's relevant but think there could be a strong prejudice argument under 403
Orilla: Nesson ROCKS
Orilla: so that's it? we are done?
Orilla: gnight y'all
Dakara: I don't know dude I am struggling wrapping my head around hearsay, haven't learned it yet
OP: Why not make the guy who wrote rapeist come testify?
Ariel: I dont think he wants us to get into the specifics of the rules... but rather, to just evaluate it under Wigmore's conceptualization
Orilla: Ariel is probably right
Pinwheel: What if he intentionally wrote rapeist with an e to throw everyone off?
Orilla: yeah that would be clever
Jupiter: can someone plz define wigmore's conceptualization?
Orilla: but odds are he wouldn't have thought of it as sufficient
Proxima Centauri: I think that's why the defense attorney should argue that it's more prejudicial than probative
Orilla: Wigmore's conceptualization is that things that aren't admissible technically but adding to the whole story, can corroborate the other evidence
Orilla: i may be wrong
OP: Wigmore says that bringing into court statements made by people not presently in court in order to prove the thing the out of court person stated is true should not be allowed. How do we know that person was telling the truth if we can't hear it from them/cross examine them?
Ariel: I don't think it should be allowed tbh
Sateda: Does it make a difference it was a written statement by him though?
Dakara: I guess in that sense it shouldn't be allowed if the individual is not taking the stand
Deimos: Everyone see Nesson's message?
Rigel: Maybe the evidence of the misspelling has no probative value at all. The fact that Phillips doesn't know how to spell rapist doesn't make him any more or less likely to have carried out the murder.
Ariel: Deimos - negatory
Orilla: What was nessons message
Deimos: 10 minute warning and to take a poll
OP: Do we want to go back to Zoom?
Orilla: deimos where did you see that
Sateda: I saw it too!
Ariel: Yay or nay go! Yay allows. Nay bars it.
Orilla: No I hate zoom and I do it way to much
Deimos: Flashed across my Zoom screen
Dakara: Deimos is hearsay
Orilla: GOOD ONE DAKARA
Ariel: This is taking me back to AIM days
Bespin: Trump or Biden? not asking who you want to win but who you think will win
Jupiter: horrible last season
Bespin: drakaris? whats that
Dakara: I am worried Trump will win but my head says Biden
Ariel: I think we're screwed either way.
Duén Canell: Settle for Biden
Orilla: Trump will win I think but either way this country is screwed at this point
Earth: Probably Trump (I live in Florida)
Dakara: Not that I love Biden
Orilla: The DNC are morons. Could have put up anyone and would have wiped the floor
Deimos: Not hearsay.
Orilla: instead they put up some old scenile white guy
Athos: why does it matter that hes white
Dakara: I think a lot of the Trump takes are just based on his unlikely win in 2016
Orilla: i agree it shouldnt matter but a great deal of Americans think it does
Orilla: identity politics
Dakara: It's a toss up right now but Trump is POTUS while there's significant unemployment and has bungled COVID (to the extent he affected things). He can't assert the "outsider" position that helped in 2016
Athos: it's not a toss up, trump is for sure the underdog
Dakara: so if I had to bet I'd say Biden, but admittedly Trump has overcome bad odds before
Athos: I agree with the rest of your takes though
Proxima Centauri: we need a poll!
Dakara: I vote to not admit
Athos: dont admit
Dakara: Well, this was an experience
Bespin: Trump will win much to my dismay
Dakara: Ok but why will Trump win
Dakara: I have not heard any reasons
Orilla: america isn't ready for Marxism (for good or for bad) and America lost all trust in media
Dakara: Lol what does that have to do with Biden my guy
Orilla: Biden is just a plant that they will stick in the oval office
Orilla: he doesnt have hte mental capacity, not that trump does but the media is choreographing every one of biden's moves. People see through it
Orilla: He is totally demented
Dakara: And the media is Marxist?
Orilla: nope they are just anti trump
Dakara: Dude the vast majority of dems are capitalist
Orilla: and will do anything to prove that and sometimes it is ridiculous
Dakara: Which marxists are planting Biden
Dakara: Leftists hate him
Orilla: yes but what about defund the police, prison abolition (not just reform), etc
Jupiter: Imo choosing Harris was a mistake, drove the moderates away
Dakara: Biden doesn't support that and neither do most dems
Jupiter: that and the protests will give trump the win
Dakara: Not making a value judgment on those policies just saying
Orilla: but biden is scared to come out and say so
Dakara: Protests I could see making a negative difference ngl
Orilla: Their response to the protests has been laughable
Earth: It's been belated and pathetic
Orilla: if biden loses, there will be more riots though
Orilla: not the other way around
Orilla: says something about those who claim to be acting on behalf ofjsutice
Dakara: At the end of the day the race is about turnout and Trump has done almost nothing to attract moderate republicans to come out other than saying "sleepy Joe! socialism bad! puppet!"
Orilla: pitfall of democracy is the people's will is sometimes bad
Orilla: hell yeah he did. Im a dem all my life and I might actually vote trump tbh
Orilla: i hate his guts
Orilla: but I hate far left marxists more
Earth: Yeah I was talking to two moderate dems who said the same thing yesterday
Orilla: and this election is a referendum on that. no one is actually voting for trump or for biden (other than the dumb MAGA folks
Dakara: Again, what does that have to do with Biden
Orilla: it isn;t trump vs biden friend
Dakara: Wrong, this election is a referendum on Trump
Earth: Harris encouraged people to donate to bail for rioters
Orilla: they said that in 2016
Orilla: and Trump won
Dakara: if it is a referendum on anything
Orilla: Nobody other than MAga belives trump is normal
Orilla: yet he will turn out a bunch of moderates and more importantly Biden is an unattractive candidate
Dakara: Trump is perhaps the most incompetent POTUS ever and Joe is just a "meh" moderate with a mixed track record who's past his prime
Dakara: Trump doesn't turn out moderates
Bespin: He is meh but also incompetent
Dakara: He is polarizing; the vast majority of people either love or hate him
Dakara: Trump is more incompetent; won't even listen to experts or technocrats
Orilla: The vast majority of people also are scared that the far left will take over and Biden ahsn't done enough to quell those fears
Earth: He got a good deal done in the middle east
Dakara: So many cabinet members have come out and said he's an idiot and terrible person to work for after leaving
Orilla: Yes, we know that
Earth: Has done way better in foreign policy than obama or bush imo
Dakara: I was speaking to the relative incompetence
Orilla: but the media has done so much that no one listens anymore to the legit stuff
Dakara: I think U.S. foreign policy is always bad; way too pro-war and anti-leftism to the point we cause bloodshed to interfere in other nations' political choices
Orilla: everything he does is bad. See e.g. the recent middle east deal. i don't care much about it (I'm no globalist) but the way they are bending over backwards to say how bad it was is laughable
Orilla: yeah we waste too much on our global footprint
Dakara: Yeah but I also think it's immoral to wage war for dumb reasons like proxy wars
Dakara: I do think Trump could win btw, I just think it's less likely still
Dakara: Debates could ruin it for Biden
Orilla: ill bet $100 on trump
Dakara: Trump was still underdog in Vegas last time I checked
Orilla: Beers on me but I dont know who you are lol
Orilla: underdog in 2016 too lol
Orilla: and Biden will get destroyed in the debates
Dakara: Yeah but 2016 was the ultimate outlier of modern elections
Orilla: I mean they haven't even done an interview that wasn't choreographed
Orilla: And when they do he implodes
Orilla: And Kamala is just meh
Dakara: Not to mention Hillary was disdained way more than Biden by the right (and she was a woman, which has at least some effect)
Orilla: she didn't get any excitment in the primaries not sure what would change
Orilla: it was literally just to check boxes
Dakara: Plus the FBI reopening the investigation right before the election played some effect probab;y
Orilla: I dont think a woman makes a difference for those who would consider voting dem
Earth: The riots have pushed a lot of people (including me) much further to the right
Dakara: It could draw out more republicans though @Orilla
Earth: @Orilla, if anything, it enthuses them
Orilla: yes, for the right wing fundamentalists mayeb but they would never vote dem even if a gun was raised to their head
Dakara: It's all about turnout
Dakara: Most people never switch parties
Orilla: yes and turnout will be better for trump and worse for biden
Dakara: Moderate republicans and dems ultimately decide based on whether or note they vote
Orilla: I switched from being dem to independant
Dakara: I'm not so sure, Trump energizes dems to come out and vote for an otherwise meh candidate
Orilla: Dakara exactly so Trump will win
Earth: Guess you and I are fellow travelers Orilla
Dakara: Yeah but Trump's base is relatively small
Orilla: And biden catering to far left galvanizes the right wingers who wouldn't vote Trump b ut hate the progressive stuff
Dakara: So them being energized is whatever
Orilla: Trust me my circle has generally been heavily Dem. Not all, but many I know are going Trump.
Dakara: They would want him on Rushmore if they could have it happen
Orilla: I hate the fact that I might vote Trump but
Orilla: LMAO rushmore
Dakara: That's anecdotal data, your friend group doesn't matter
Earth: Dems would have to come out strong against BLM/Antifa extremism for me to vote for them
Earth: I voted clinton last election
Orilla: Dakara of cours eits anecdotal but still
Orilla: I did not vote Trump last election and I might just have to
Dakara: Alright I'm bored so I'll tap out
Orilla: The anti-racist stuff is such BS
Orilla: dont mean that there ist racism just that being white doesn't make you racist
Earth: The anti-racism stuff is pure evil
Earth: It is just as bad as racism
Deimos: It is your contention that people acting against racism are as bad as people acting in furtherance of racism?
Athos: im voting for Alex jones
Dakara: Pickle Rick >
Athos: funniest shit ive ever seen
Dakara: I actually stopped watching after it became a meme around season two
Jupiter: Pickle Rick!!
Orilla: I wouldnt say people acting against racists are even close to as bad as actual racists but I will say that identifying everything and everyone based on their race, and assuming anyone who is white is racist etc. is ridiculous. And that will only sow more hate and discord in this country.